Get the best deal. Tim HemmTimothy Hemm, CREIA MCI, You are testing for continuity and should receive a reading of 1000-2000 ohms. I'm relieved that you replaced the panel. Photo at left provided courtesy of Timothy Hemm. Note: shown here are Challenger™ circuit breakers, not Stab-lok™ design circuit breakers, installed in a Westinghouse™ / Challenger™ Electrical panel - Editor. ... electrical panel bus discoloration, if not obvious corrosion, is a reliable indication of over heating. about the time CH shut Challenger down. A sub panel containing 6 circuits or less can omit a separate main breaker and may be switched by the breaker on its input feed circuit. I could just imagine that with that fool statement he had probably killed one or two of the fellows in the room, sending 240 volts right through their hearts. Eaton however wanted no part of that legacy, so they had Challenger sell off that product line before the takeover. The thing too is he said he only like needs one or 2 rooms of power.nowhere else. (LOST NEUTRAL SHOCKS HOMEOWNER ). We should start troubleshooting by first ruling out the most-common trouble sources. Even though at home inspections I habitually stood blocking my inspection client from direct access to the electrical panel as I examined that component, I once had a client reach right over my shoulder and stick his finger right into a live fuse socket while asking "What the heck is this!" Average 4.93/5 from 149 reviews. "Home Wiring Inspection," Roswell W. Ard, Rodale's New Shelter, July/August, 1985 p. 35-40. Tightened everything very snugly.all breaker grabs are tight too.there were no signs of overheating on wires except at one breaker just the copper looked discolored.no melted insulation or breakers anywhere. The chance that someone else will fail to understand that they need to be careful when inspecting electrical panels is a worry that leads me take opportunity to point out shock hazards where I can see them. I just had the panel replaced with a Murray. Bottom line, whether you're seeing a product defect or overheating caused by an installation error, it is reasonable to conclude that the panels you're seeing with this symptom are unsafe and should be replaced. Click to Show or Hide Citations & References, CASE HISTORY: LOSS of NEUTRAL SHOCKS HOMEOWNER, ELECTRICAL PANEL FUSED NEUTRAL WIRE HAZARDS, ARTICLE INDEX to ELECTRICAL INSPECTION & TESTING, * Safety Hazards and Safe Inspection Procedures, HOME INSPECTION EDUCATION COURESES (Canada), HOME INSPECTION EDUCATION: HOME STUDY COURSES, Integrated or separate service disconnect (main breaker or fuses) - NEC also permits a maximum of six disconnects to turn off all power in an electrical panel. After my electrician pulled out the old panel I pulled out the breaker and found that the Zinsco bus was fine, and it seemed to me that the main problem with this panel design was the underrated bus connections. In this article, we’ll outline the qualities to consider when choosing a solar panel installer and share where to find the best in Canberra. Interestingly, the failure pattern and location is quite similar to bus overheating damage seen in FPE panels. I worked for Cutler-Hammer/Eaton as a field engineer (Fixing what others had broken or misapplied.) Continue reading at MAIN DISCONNECT AMPACITY or select a topic from the closely-related articles below, or see the complete ARTICLE INDEX. Thanks again for the photos, I'll be sure to add these to our discussion of Challenger field reports and of course blame you for their origin. ASHI, ICC Certified Inspector, is a professional home inspector in Redlands, California and is a contributor to InspectApedia.com. - Anonymous by private email, Albany, NY I might have asked you or someone else if over time do breakers become more sensitive or less to trip on overload. In a typical main panel, up to 2 main switches are allowed as main disconnect for the panel. - Cameron 11/19/2014. Some experts (http://ecmweb.com) aptly point out that even if a circuit breaker pair could be connected by a common handle (not possible in this Pushmatic case) the level of protection is not the same as that provided by two-pole or double-pole circuit breakers with a common internal trip tie mechanism. Can you give the approximate dates of those observations? Thanks for this tip, Alan, it is a field verification that the Challenger electrical panel design appeared under the Westinghouse & Cutler-Hammer labels as well. Pioneer was then later bought by Schneider, who of course owns Sq. The Implications: electrical shock or fire. Main fuse or main circuit breaker in an electrical panel: This article summarizes inspection of the main electrical switch - the main switch at buildings and also outlines other electrical panel and switch defects that can be found by visual inspection. - you can post a reply by private email or by posting as a Comment using the Comments Box below. who later [in 1988] changed their name to American Circuit Breaker Co. (ACBC). Information in this electrical inspection article series was presented by I call it 'bleeding' over. Challenger Electric: electrical panel bus overheats, circuit breaker failures, field reports. Read the latest Caravan TV Antennas reviews from our customers. I think I was in a rush to comprehend it all. D too, but Schneider wanted no part of marketing the Stab-Lok breakers in the US. Buy the Hema HX-1 On and Off Road Navigator online - BCF is Australias leading outdoor clothing, footwear and gear retailer with a wide range of outdoors equipment available both online and in stores nationwide. Challenger [Electric] became part of Eaton [Cutler Hammer] years ago, but had bought the rights to the [FPE] Stab-Lok breaker when FPE went bust. So the only thing CE could do is get their versions "Classified" for use in FPE load centers, and because UL had a problem with FPE's listings even when they were FPE, CE got listing under ETL (which some people view as "easier" to get than UL). The name of that company changed to Federal Pioneer, then later just Pioneer. Wholesale Supply. Some of the most reviewed products in Breaker Boxes are the Square D Homeline 200 Amp 30-Space 60-Circuit Indoor Main Breaker Plug-On Neutral Load Center with Cover - Value Pack with 356 reviews and the GE 200 Amp 20-Space 40-Circuit Main Breaker Indoor Load Center Contractor Kit with 149 reviews. I wanted to share with you some pictures.. (attached) thank you for your time.. hopefully this will be helpful to people on your website. This photo of a discolored, overheated bus in a Challenger electrical panel was provided by Mark Cramer, a Tampa Florida home inspector. They're great but not comprehensive, nor do we know building history, wiring snafus, etc. Try the search box just below, or if you prefer, post a question or comment in the Comments box below and we will respond promptly. inspection professionals, home inspectors, electrical inspectors, and electricians.\. Institute LAB. Separately, However the specific panel bus and breaker designs are different among those brands. This article includes photographs of overheated Challenger Electric electrical panel components and cites a historical connection between Challenger Electric Company and Federal Pacific Electric. He's been looking at FPE faults besides the fundamental one (breakers that don't trip in response to overcurrent) for some time. Panelboard not Panel Board 5.) Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the. He had normal for a wet basement corrosion on the ground buss bar-why do they not make the screws out of aluminum too I don't know why but we all know 3 dissimilar metals just don't work together nicely in O2. He needs lighting though I don't know what is what. In a huge fight over this, ACBC settled on giving up their production facility in South Carolina that was making the breakers, in deference to Pioneer making them for them in Canada at a guaranteed price. About 2 years ago I sent you an email regarding my Challenger panel that accepts Eaton Cutler Hammer type BR circuit breakers, and wanted to let you know what happened recently. Hot! "Electrical Systems," A Training Manual for Home Inspectors, Alfred L. Alk, American Society of Home Inspectors (ASHI), 1987, available from ASHI. It was always something I wondered about. GFCI protection will often detect the third of those problems. Or see CHALLENGER ELECTRIC PANEL FAQs - questions & answers posted originally at this page. Add to Cart More Herbicides More Herbicides, Grass, & Weed Control More Lawn and Garden More Information. Relectric is an electrical wholesaler that stocks new and used electrical supplies online, including Allen Bradley, ABB, Cutler-Hammer, Eaton, General Electric, Siemens, Schneider Electric, Square D, Federal Pacific and many more brand-name electrical supplies. Proper Practice and Use of Electrical Technical Terminology [Jargon]: 1.) If you have or come across photos or documentation of product specifications for those products that would be helpful to add here. They might not perform well and this is a Westinghouse panel box. It was a 200a panel. There shall be no more than six sets of disconnects per service grouped in any one location. He is too close for comfort as well. InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. Get free shipping for a limited time on TVs and all HP computers on sale. Also see FPE STAB-LOK HISTORY where we include details of the history of FPE, Federal Pacific Electric Company, American Circuit Breaker Company [ACBC], Oregan Breakers, INc., Provident Industries, Federal Electric Products (Canada), Pioneer Electric (Canada), Schneider Electric Canada and others. A close look at the breaker will almost always show the amps rating. The Challenger stuff I had seen in the 70's in Phoenix Arizona was exactly like the Westinghouse/Cutler-Hammer stuff of the same type, just slightly different grey paint. FEDERAL PIONEER PANEL SAFETY where Challenger and later ACBC American Circuit Breaker Company "FPE Stab-Lok" breakers are discussed. The image illustrates the value of inspecting the electrical panel with care: a casual scan might miss that discolored bus (yellow arrow). 41% Gly Star® Plus Glyphosate Herbicide, 2-1/2 Gallons #50135 $39.99; Add to Cart More Tractor Quick Hitches More Tractor Accessories More Information. [DF NOTE: I do NOT recommend this obsolete publication, though it was cited in the original. Apologies for the delay. Carl Grasso, Esq., Herzfeld & Rubin, New York, NY. Thank you for your in-depth review and explanation of the issues encountered at this panel box. The service disconnecting means for each service permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception Nos. (Nov. 2019). So my best educated decision would be to either replace the main breaker or break the common trip bar out and keep whatever the double pole breaker is off and maybe replace all the breakers too and get the right size breakers for some. We also provide an ARTICLE INDEX for this topic, or you can try the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX as a quick way to find information you need. You spotted trouble that in my OPINION most fellows skip. An integrated introduction to electrical engineering and computer science, taught using substantial laboratory experiments with mobile robots. He complained of slowly losing power at receptacles and burning out incandescent bulbs quite too often. Hhe last 2 breaker pics have one breaker over heating and the others corroded. The PL Series load centers make labor savings a priority. We include information about How many main disconnect switches are allowed, other main disconnect switch hazards. Come visit us today! This is the third Challenger panel I have discovered with this damage. Clear examples are FPE Stab-Lok equipment, and two more possible examples are the Bulldog-Pushmatic panel and also Zinsco panels. A hot to neutral and hot to ground should trip a breaker. 1/24/2014. 4-77 1977 [Lots of sketches of older-type service panels.]. Murray products have a rich tradition of Murray products have a rich tradition of quality and reliability that still lives on today. At the same time Schneider gave up the rights to sell and use the name Stab-Lok in the US and ACBC cannot sell in Canada. This article includes photographs of overheated Challenger Electric electrical panel components and cites a historical connection between Challenger Electric Company and Federal Pacific Electric. About your finger near that Pushmatic breaker, I know you were smart enough not to electrocute yourself. His utility ground spike clamp was loose from someone doing siding and forgot to remember something safety hazard wise-how stupid. Not in his basement shop,garage. - 2018/02/02. Where we have independent, unbiased testing and field reports of comparatively high levels of field failures, an astute home inspector, electrical inspector, or electrician ought to call out those hazards - even where they may call for a costly panel replacement. For the purpose of this section, disconnecting means used solely for power monitoring equipment, or the control circuit of the ground-fault protection system or power-operable service disconnecting means, installed as part of the listed equipment, shall not be considered a service disconnecting means. If the sub panel contains more than 6 breakers (and is remote from the main switch) it needs to have its own main switch. At https://InspectAPedia.com/fpe/FPE_History.php we report that Challenger was in fact in the ownership path during the history of the demise of FPE. Nice going Timothy. Luminaire not Luminaries 4.) I believe I read somewhere that pushing breakers on and off the lugs to establish a clean contact creates scratches that may cause arcing,is this true? I 'm also thinking of splitting up the load evenly with the breakers.what in your expertise should I do do? Also i'm a little confused as to does he have a 300 or 150 amp panel and main? Electrical & Electronics. Pat's 3-Point Quick Change Hitch - Category 1 With Stabilizer Bar Your panel photos are not sharp enough for me to see the details of your main breaker, but it would be very very unusual to find a 300A breaker in such a panel, nor do your entry mains look nearly big enough for that amperage, nor do we normally find residential panels in that amperage range. At the heart of the Murray offering is the Rock Solid load center – designed for those customers that prefer an out-board neutral design and metal base pan for installing breakers. I 'm in doubt over my use of noalox and the breakers. Even before condemning the panel based on brand and history data, the overheating is a serious red flag and argues for replacement - something one would reportage advise. Further, this particular Pushmatic main breaker design is not visually ambiguous - that is, switching off one side of the panel would not make it look as if both are off. The 30A breaker was an example of over-fusing, an un-safe condition. All ES Series load centers come with a 10-year warranty. "How to plan and install electric wiring for homes, farms, garages, shops," Montgomery Ward Co., 83-850. That situation is called the "rule of six" - meaning that if there are six breakers or less in a panel then that panel does not have to also have a main switch. The short answer is that we are allowed up to two main switches to turn off power in the main electrical panel. Photographs of this ca 1980's Challenger electrical panel were provided by a licensed electrician in California who recommended electrical panel replacement as the overheated panel and its circuit breakers were considered unsafe. I need to get this old man back into his house again by giving him power first then onto his Lennox pulse furnace situation, i don't know if there is a problem with it or not.hopefully it's not a cracked exchanger. See FPE REPLACEMENT PANEL for a discussion of use of the Eaton - Cutler Hammer replacement bus assembly that may be suitable in some applications. 6.01 Introduction to EECS via Robotics. Challenger Electric: electrical panel bus overheats, circuit breaker failures, field reports. How many disconnects are allowed on a residential home to turn off. I don't remember exactly if it was off the hot or neutral but they would range from like say 25 or lower volts. Image: severe corrosion on the ground / neutral bus in the Westinghouse electrical panel. I was inspecting the panel and found that the piece of bus that feeds the main bus that comes from the main breakers was very discolored. However even a loss of power on the utility side of the meter and panel would not (in any way I can see) explain overheating on one leg of the panel main bus nor in the panel itself. A handle-only connection in some designs may leave one breaker "on" and the other "off" - a dangerous condition because of the chance of fooling the electrician or homeowner into thinking that all electrical power is off when it is not. Or see MAIN ELECTRICAL DISCONNECT FAQs - questions & answers about the main electrical disconnect switch(es) posted originally on this page. The Canadian version is made as grey, the US version is still black. Is it too much to ask for when being installed by the installer is to put noalox [antixoidant] on most if not all connections?. And if it does i could only do 240v or higher. Yellen nomination passes through Senate panel January 25, 2021, 3:33 p.m. Yahoo Finance's Brian Cheung joined Yahoo Finance Live to break down how Janet Yellen is poised to become the first female Treasury chief as her nomination passes through the Senate. I asked Douglas Hanson about this, (if there is any repair) & he said the manufacturers are adamant, when the insulation material is damaged there is no repair. While I suspect that some of these failures are probably caused by overheating at the breaker to bus connection, which might in turn argue that a breaker is not tripping when it should, we can't conclude the cause for sure from just your photos. 19 Nov 2014. In your photos I see signs of significant water entry or condensation, wet components, corrosion, and overheating. Adding the brand adds emphasis. (A) General. Lightning Protection not Lighting Protection 8.) Generator Breaker Interlock for ITE, Gould, Murray and Siemens 150 or 200 amp panels 1 1/4 spacing between main and branch breakers Met lab listed E113887 Kit includes Interlock, labeling, drill bit and generator breaker retainer strap PLEASE Verify panel type by checking second picture Yes, you install minimum one panel in shade, so you will have a minimum of 7 panels on sun and 1 in shade, and at this point your system may lose perfomance. 1993 NEC (Quoting from Orlando Florida Code of Ordinances, web search 01/18/2011, original source: Outside electrical service feeder wires: see Article 225, not Article 230 (Service conductors). 149 Reviews. Also these are challenger breakers. Excerpting comments posted by Jraef, a moderator in Mike Holt's electrical forum on 11/18/2015, original source: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=173243 with [Editor's annotations] - Ed. Any chance you can get a hold of one of these panels? With the electrical panel and breakers replaced and circuit connections to it re-made, you still need to find and correct the source of basement moisture or the new panel risks being similarly damaged and unsafe. When Schneider forced ACBC to stop making the Stab-Lok breakers, Connecticut Electric (CE) supposedly bought the old ACBC factory in South Carolina including the molds and machinery used to make the old Stab-Lok breakers (they moved it I think). This didn't look right and [that is] the reason i'm contacting you about this. Eaton, has no official connection to that product any longer of maintenance and could have most contributed! Socket, on this point it would be acceptable also i 'm in over... ( a ) Lighting and Appliance Branch-Circuit Panelboard murray electrical panel reviews Protected of each buss there. The rights to sell that breaker as a field engineer ( Fixing what had. Breaker will almost always show the amps rating home wiring inspection, '' Roswell W. Ard, 's... 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Residential breaker main size Hemm can be contacted at ( 951 ) 543-3501, @!, there are so many people in my area with Zinsco and FPE panels including! ) 543-3501, timhemm @ yahoo.com or tlhinspector @ gmail.com, website:.... Be labels in the ownership path during the history of the issues encountered this... They sold it to a Company called Providence, [ sic, actually `` Provident Electric -! Common residential breaker main size IAEI Certified electrical INSPECTOR, by private email, Albany, NY 2018/01/29 will. Box wiring configuration email 2019/09/01 SE 1 ph HD inverter in 1988 ] changed their name American! A Challenger electrical panel does he have a 300 amp breaker SHADE and you read that this is.: i do do breaker leg holes and discolored lug strip on side! Be blamed if/when there is a fire or shock comments also prompted me to read related! Is what obsolete publication, though it was off the hot or murray electrical panel reviews but would. 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Services discussed at this page as its likely to mean overcurrent have been present without the breakers does...