Early versions had a more powergaming builds due to the system being highly exploitable (3.5 ed), 5th ed is more of a traditional rpg, as others had suggested, play on archetypes, Elven Dragonmarked Rogue Inquisitive, Shifter Druid of the Moon Circle, Hobgoblin Fighter … Especially my friends playing martial characters haha. I fall on the side that it doesn’t say random and the generic rule is that players choose what their spells do unless stated otherwise. With magic items, it gets to around 300 damage, using purple worm poison, and dexterity increasing items. When closing on the unsuspecting Solar or Kraken, pop your vow of enmity, granting you advantage (Elven Accuracy anyone?) When I have more time and energy I can try running the comparative numbers against each other to see who wins out. Most Crossbows take 2 hands to use. The Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook was released in August 2009. Will still post pertinent stuff to the build here, but I thought you might appreciate the backstory I built to tie in the 3 subclasses. I was lucky enough to get a Staff of Defense around Lvl 4. It's not entirely intrinsic to the design, but it does lean heavily that way, waggle its eyebrows suggestively at it, and whisper "So, you, ah, you interested in some powergaming? It is on its sixth printing, which was published May 30, 2013. I plan to do more, but these articles take quite a bit of work so it may be a bit while I wrap up review articles and the campaign I’m running. If there is a level where I have the druid using polymorph and conjure animals please let me know so I can fix it. which is the 2d6 out of 10. and 1d8 out of 9 +10 flat damage if you hit. Then on second turn draw the second sword? That last level could easily be warlock if you wanted. Oh nevermind you would just lose 10 feet of movement, Yeah it’s a much smaller penalty than most people realize =P. Quick question about the bardcher, you can’t wear heavy armor without 15 strength RAW unless you are doing variant encumbrance in which case you would likely be encumbered. Completely insane. Lvl 7 Holy Avenger: 68 HP (9 + 7×4 + 8×2) + 5 (Lvl 2 Aid) + 10 (Lvl 2 Armor of Agathys). I’m reading the grapple druid build, and I don’t know whether the numbers check when you say brown bear/8 raptors, for example. i have no idea what i’m talking about obviously. As for shoving, you can do it as a bonus action if you get the shield master feat! 3: I can beat your character with a lv 2 spell. Human (variant). Cloak of invisibility would also help, along with boots of elvenkind, or even just a tanky mammoth druid grappling and restraining whatever it is you are trying to ice with instadeath levels of skill. I’m thinking hunters mark, the plus 2 fighting style to ranged attacks, along with colossus slayer, would pump out more damage through those levels. You can also use it on a weapon as an easy method to disarm. I love that the builds are justified in mechanics, but also that they have some good story possible elements. However, the real raptor damage will be similar, so it shouldn’t change the numbers much. Yes, the Life Domain (Cleric choice) gives you Heavy Armour at 1st level (the only level we take). but that would just be my choices. Bonus action for quickened Spirit Guardians (SG). 15: 147.52 I think I’ll have an enemy in melee range in most combats, and that would give me disadvantage on Eldritch Blast attack rolls. Many of these spells are restricted to specific classes, such as wizard or paladin, keeping them balanced. If true, then Warcaster would allow casting Cure Wounds or Haste… whatever on a friendly as a reaction if the provoke an opportunity attack, right? I plan to pick up Resilient (Wis) for my next ASI. 147): “You can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action… regardless of the number of attackes you can normally make.”. The stats are a little off, but the damage output of the volos vs homebrew is very close. 15: 421.68 -1: 11.40 Just wanted to confirm that the multiclassing for the Holiest Warrior grants two 3rd level slots back each short rest. I doubt this build would be significantly impacted by taking cleric at first level to gain that proficiency though, would it? The first round it would just be heat metal, the damage chart reflects future rounds where it only take an action to use the spell’s damage. 15: 256.91 You can do fighter with the dex, tho. That's what AD&D is for. We consider that clever play, not an imbalance, so hurl away! 15: 63.16 Why the 1 level dip on the bladesinger? Press J to jump to the feed. By the time they start adding straight damage the bladesinger can be attacking 3 times with their dual wield. Example Build - Dragonborn Paladin (Oath of Devotion) Honor, justice, and mercy, but also incredible violence and aggression. Without going too deep, Eldritch Blast is by far the strongest damage cantrip in the game. That’s why the grapple druid has nothing to do with what a real-life bear can do, it’s about with the very specific meaning of “Grapple” in DND. Both Blade Ward and Dodge make the Spirit Guardians easier to maintain and keep you in the front of the fight longer. Side note, I don’t think you can twin Blur since it has a range of “self” which is explicitly prohibited in the Twin Spell description. Not something I would have considered given how Simulacrum is expensive and will need to be recast after the double uses Tenser’s Transformation 6 times or dies. For many lower levels they out preform dual wielding, and stack with shadow blade or get amplified with flaming sphere. I’ve noticed on the Angry Wizard at !st Level that there are seven 1st Level Spells chosen. RAW you can’t shove using the shield master feat unless you take the Attack action, which this build never does. Can i ask you what your reasoning is for your metamagic choices? I would greatly appreciate you enlightening me on this interaction, or at least giving a hint. SS Crossbow expert fighter by comparison uses no resources but averages 107.5 from 5d6+15*6. Taronodors guide was really good for my spell choices, and P.A really helped me learn how to actually play and understand the wizard. The spell is incredibly efficient to upcast, starting at 3d8 and gaining 1d8 per spell level above 3, capping at 9d8 per round to each enemy it hits. I was checking the rules for familIar concentration, thinking maybe we could double up the aura or something. Sounds like a good build, there’s definitely a lot of flexibility to be found with a bardcher type build. If you really want to shoot things in melee with you the crossbow expert feat also solves that issue. I had played a Divine Soul/Life Cleric, but had not mixed in the Warlock for pulling targets in. Great article! The errata clarifies that the crossbow expert fear doesn’t turn a hand crossbow into a semiautomatic weapon; you need a free hand to load any weapon that has ammunition, regardless of whether you have the crossbow feat or the weapon had the loading property. your damage shows. It depends. I think the idea of using Eldritch Blast is on targets not currently in melee with you (i.e. SG already has a good crowd control element with the rough terrain, and if I want burst damage Sorc gives us Fireball. Hello, I am looking at the Bardcher to run in a campaign soon and I have a question. Our ability to do this increases even further at level 12, almost guaranteeing we succeed at any grapple check we make, even against powerful enemies. -2: 23.50 Bard takes up the majority of this build’s levels, but I dipped into the fighter and sorcerer classes to gain access to a specific class feature and the ability to attune to several high-powered magic items normally not open to bards. If your GM follows this reading of the spell then the build does significantly less damage, but I’ve seen it fall the other way enough that I don’t think it’s a huge assumption. Can also get a full-levelled animal companion at level 3. The Shaman is a very interesting class, gaining a varied allotment of spells and abilities that evoke both the Druid and the Witch. Assuming all hits doesn’t reflect actual damage output. Ran into an issue with this…the rules state that if you have a melee opponent in your face, you are STILL at disadvantage to attack other targets further away with ranged spells (i.e. Any time! 25: 10.20, 10: 32.45 Wishing for a Simulacrum lets us re-up our clone without the time or money requirements. Grappling someone doesn’t put them on the ground, it holds them in place. It was a lot of fun to play. This lends itself to people trying to push the rules' limits. +0: 40.40 25: 32.46, 6d8+12d12+20 (x3 rapier / Tenser’s Transformation / Simulacrum), 10: 134.93 I would like to have a discussion on the Pros and Cons of Allowing and encouraging "Power-gaming". An easy mistake to make that I have done many times myself =P. (1d8+6d6+10d12+53) x 2 (Tenser’s Transformation / Simulacrum / griffon / Defensive Flourish / 3 hand xbow SS), 10: 290.20 That’s incredibly helpful! Have you looked at scag cantrips? 15: 17.60 Out of all these character concepts I’ve played that one the most and movement was rarely an issue. I’ve seen opinions that they never stack, others say if your mount is evil and you’re good (or vice versa), the necrotic/radiant effects would stack, but not 2 of the same type, I’ve also seen people say they all stack fine. Rage bear is great if you feel losing a level of druid is worth. What does that mean, and how do you make that happen? The bardcher’s damage is so much higher than any martial option that if all you want is the most combat effective archer I don’t see any other viable option. Since writing this I’ve realized the raptor block I used was actually homebrew, and I haven’t put in the time to re-do all the calculations. I like that, I'm glad they did that in both systems, but to be quite honest, if you wanted to run a Kensai in 3.5e, there was a whole class for Kensai in one of the books, with it's own flavor and entirely unique playstyle. One minor note: I think that strictly speaking your angry wizard shouldn’t be able to cast spells while dual-wielding if they don’t have warcaster, but the rules about drawing weapons are so vague and confusing that you could probably just sheathe and unsheathe your sword every turn or something silly like that. Shouldn’t it be 10D6 (2 from bear 8 from raptors) 1D8 (bear Multiattack) 8D4 (8 raptor Multiattack) +X (assuming raptors are the Velociraptor from VGtM). All these features add up to an incredibly powerful late-game character capable of killing enemies like Tiamat in between 1 and 2 rounds. Pathfinder, having originally been a clone of 3rd edition, is no different in this regard. 'That game I don't like is about stuff that's bad,' is a common cry. This build focuses on creating a tank that is proficient at mitigating damage directed toward it, healing any damage it cannot mitigate, and being dangerous enough it cannot be ignored by enemies attempting to bypass it. I’ve also seen people say that no matter what they don’t stack, and people who say they stack just fine. There are two other options, I don't know if this first one works so well in 3.5 but it's a beauty in Pathfinder: use massed assaults, Pathfinder has rules, in Chapter 12 of the Core Rulebook under Designing Encounters Table 12-3 "CR Equivalencies", for using large numbers of lower CR creatures to build high CR encounters. It wasn’t until a month or 2 ago that I learned it gives disadvantage to ALL attacks. As your action, cast Blade Ward Cantrip for resistance to piercing, bludgeoning, slashing. Total is 5d6+53+7d12+1d8 Average output assuming all hits is 120.5 The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook includes: It grants bonuses to elemental damage and effects and chaos damage, including poison. If you have any other questions about the builds or 5e just post em here and I’ll answer them. Wish is the most flexible spell in the game, even ignoring the “wish for whatever you want” portion of the spell. This build takes advantage of what I consider one of the best spells in 5E, Spirit Guardians. Normally when a character has access to a feature like Unarmored Defense and casts an AC buff spell like Mage Armor, they have to choose one of those calculations to determine their AC. It’s certainly a possibility that if the bard is heavily targeted then the concentration spells won’t be as valuable, but even without them the build is a decent archer with a ton of utility outside of combat. Great builds, keep up the good work, and well met! Of course the GM could always make a scenario that would stump any of these characters, but by that measure no build is broken, as the GM has unlimited ability to cut a PC down to size. Spirit Guardians creates a 15-foot area around the caster that damages and slows enemies attempting to enter or stay inside it. I think Simulacrum is truly broken though so once that spell becomes available I think it all goes out the window. I might have been powergaming without realizing it. 1: I love your combination of find greater steed and tenser’s transformation, I honestly never looked at TT because I don’t play arcane classes much but it’s got great synergy with the find steed spells (if you’re playing with an independent mount which comes with plenty of problems if in melee, not as much if you’re a ranged character) So I’ve been enjoying Twinned Toll the Dead instead. Rolling 12 dice a round with a 10% crit rate is a pretty good shot at getting at least 1 crit per round. I would rate lore stronger for any sort of casting focused bard. These optimized character builds use any rules; some found within the System Reference Document, WotCsource books, third party source books, the internet, and, of course, here on D&D Wiki. What are the more subtle yet out of balance builds out there. I suspect most of my quibbles are based mostly on differences in the types of campaigns I play in (or, more commonly, DM). i am looking into details with both builds, and if sneak attack doesnt work with the weapons i listed, you can edit them (longsword would be preferred secondary weapon after greataxe, if not, then shortsword). I believe you will and it is truly a game changer! I’m seeing it only as a cleric spell and not granted by Divine soul, in DND beyond at least. 20: 155.87 25: 5.92, -2: 33.23 I’ve seen some folks claim that if you get an evil person (necrotic aura) and a good person (radiant aura) overlapping creatures take damage from both, but 2 of the same type don’t stack. In a real game I’d decide between shadowblade and haste depending on the situation. The hexblade is great though, many of my builds make use of it for dipping 1-3 levels. The Life cleric’s increased healing is also nice, although its strength will show through later. and free sneak attacks for 1 minute – this also guarantees critical strikes on any attack that lands, thanks to Assassinate. Hey here’s a thought: Bard of Whispers (15th) with Champion Fighter (5th). 15: 326.12 25: 100.08. .The classes. Rulebooks . Good call out for folks who want to take the monk dip though. I stopped running D20 games because building 'balanced' encounters was such a pain in the ass, and fully optimizing them too often led to TPKs. You are correct that the familiar should be using the help action every turn if possible, although you want to keep it safe as if it dies you lose your maximized healing dice ability until it is revived. Yeah RAW bears can’t grapple, thankfully there are decent animal forms with built in grapples that are also good combat forms, so it doesn’t hurt the build too much if your GM decides to stick to RAW grapple. Ranger (Favored Foe) for a 1 level dip (for monk for instance) or 1-3+ levels of mystic prior to taking Eldritch Knight or Bladeslinger would be pretty exceptional I would think. It's not entirely intrinsic to the design. I think you must remove the 3rd hand crossbow attack because you are using your bonus action to command the Animated Objects to attack. The monk dip is needed if you want to use quarterstaves as dex weapons. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. If you issue no commands, the creature only defends itself against hostile creatures. Normally this pull can simply be used to keep enemies away from our squishier teammates, but when combined with Spirit Guardians, it allows us to trigger the aura damage twice on one target per round, as damage is first triggered when the creature is dragged into the aura and again when the creature begins its turn inside the aura we dragged it into. 15: 17.40 d20pfsrd.com is not responsible for the content therein. The capstone for wizards is bad, so we don’t lose a lot by multiclassing to pick up a specific level 1 feature, but which class and when to take the level has been tough to nail down. 20: 156.07 You hit the nail on the head with the barb druid. As in MtG, Pathfinder and D&D have the powergaming vein in them, aggravated by the fact that the "metagame" is static. If you’re fighting melee targets in some type of room or dungeon, they’re going to have to deal the equivalent of 20 damage (while taking Armor of Agathys and Spirit Guardians damage themselves) before getting to your actual HP. For this build, I chose fighter for the two-weapon fighting style; if I knew I could get a Staff of the Magi/Power, I would take a level of monk instead. My understanding is that that is not a legal interaction, at least not according to these sources. You’re totally right about Blade Ward and Dodge, I’ve used both when I actually played this character in a campaign. If you wanted to go more than 1 level barb dip, I’d say take 5 levels for the multi attack, then use 2 levels of moon druid to get a ton of extra bear HP while raging. That allows the attack action with main hand, the free hand reloads, then he can make a bonus attack with the main hand. I thought that a 1st Level Wizard only had six to choose from. It’s a bit lengthy so I don’t want to post it here. Does a knight not know how to use a spear? you know what just ignore me. It’s always good to check with the GM about what they’ll allow, I’ve never heard of someone saying a bear can’t grapple, but you never know =). Not the most helpful answer I admit, but it’s highly contextual. +1: 58.20 Honestly the weapon draw/stow/drop rules seem to vary wildly from table to table, so it’s hard to predict what a GM will allow, however RAW the “drop dance” works. If you have 2 targets for it I’d definitely say go for it for all the reasons you listed. Normally with heat metal you use it on a target’s armor, as they can’t take that off. The MM even gives guidelines on making custom creatures based on existing creatures. If needed use reaction for the shield/absorb elements spell. Dnd is the place I go to tinker highly mechanical rpg systems. Or on multiple party members? The other thing about 4e and Pathfinder is that they both make pretty hefty use of Archetypes, or atypical builds for a core class. So your PDF will never be out-dated. So now that Im learning a bit more about PoE and the basics, Ive started my third game now and bumped the difficulty up to hard. And unfortunately the “multi-attack” action cannot have one of its attacks replaced with a shove or grapple. I can explain it in more detail later. Three things: How do you get the 17 for dex with a half elf when point buy only goes up to 15 and you only can add a +1 to dex with that race? Picking human gives us one of those at level 1. This means, for example, there is no mechanic for a mastiff to bite a human to hold them in place, even though that’s something real dogs are very good at. It’s true that shoving someone prone while grappled can be quite good, it does eat another action which is a pretty steep cost IMO. Levels 1–5 are spent as a normal sorcerer. That’s about 86 damage on top of weapon damage, and you’ll pull this out about once every other round. Cool. Since this article assumed no magic items I could skip monk and keep my wis at 10. In rare cases I think twin haste/poly/enlarge could be a massive tactical advantage. Once you have Animate Objects up and are concentrating on it each turn, you use your bonus action for them to attack. I completely agree! 20: 219.42 -1: 52.62 Dip into 1 level of hexblade warlock will give you some of the strongest “single hit” build, if you’re available to use booming blade and green flame blade. 20: 12.68 25: 122.20, Cantrips: Chill Touch, Control Flame, Mage hand, Sword Burst. 25: 20.96. Please take no offense, but I believe you missed the most powerful element of a Sorcerer casting Spirit Guardians. 25: 17.40. This means that, with Mage Armor, our AC becomes 13+dex modifier+int modifier. We depend on our readers to keep running. Maybe bump the wis a bit and drop some con. They critical 10% of the time (auto-hit for double damage) – so you’ll average 2 criticals every 5 rounds. These are builds that go beyond powerbuilding, and into the realm of taking over for the entire ... pathfinder-1e gm-techniques character-creation problem-players powergaming asked Jul 1 '19 at 0:58 Hit: 5 (1d6+2) piercing damage. Not only does this allow our druid to do much more damage, but it also keeps that pair of rowdy orcs safely away from our casters by “carefully” holding each one in our giant scorpion pincers. As for vulnerability to aoe, it is a concern, but if you feel a fight will throw a lot of AOE at you, just hold onto your spell slot for one that doesn’t. You’re correct, the flourishes are the main reason, they add damage and a host of other useful bonuses that valor doesn’t. The Range is 15 ft radius. Also, can you explain where the damage is coming from with those high numbers at level 5-6 and then the ones later would be appreciated, they just don’t seem to make sense or rather, are too high. Thanks. If your GM does want to enforce that rule, the build still works with things like the giant scorpion’s auto grapples. This combines with up to 4 attacks from the bard riding it. So you can only fire your hand crossbow twice, once for the main attack and once for the Second Attack but not a third time as a bonus action because you’re using the bonus action for the Object to attack. In essence, his level 1 table entry (“2d6+6 (2 hand xbow)”) is wrong, that is not the DPR. I’m not sure how DnD Beyond organizing its spells, but Divine Soul sorcs have access to the full cleric spell list from their level 1 Divine Magic feature. DISCLAIMER: When I say "trap" options, I'm talking about feats that on the surface look really amazing, but in practice are very situational. Infusing the area gives you a passive ability against beasts that can be upgraded with each infuse, infusing yourself gives material to upgrade equipment, and infusing Muatu upgrades him for each infuse. Level 7 grants us the Polymorph spell, allowing us or any ally to become a giant ape, a creature with 157 hp and 6d10+12 worth of attacks per round. I provide a summary of what I consider the most important pieces of each build, along with a much more in-depth coverage of what the build does at each level. In my experience Spirit Guardians is so universally applicable it always was useful to some extent with its range and the pull on EB. I won’t be using ASI’s for CHA boosts until level past level 10 and I won’t have Rod of Pact Keeper, so I’ll increasingly be less accurate. Your writing is always informative and easy to read! Raptor CR is 1/4 which is why you get 8 of them see Volos book for that info. So yeah, by strict RAW a character, but not a monster, can substitute grapples and shoves when they attack more than once as an action. A goal of this post is to prove this kind of thinking wrong. So for +0: 22.10 Get your Legolas arm strong, and build the best archer you can. Kobol Hunter Ranger (Horde Breaker)3/War Cleric 2/BM Fighter+ Takes a bit to come online, but Sharpshooter/X-bow Exp = almost always on Advantage destruction. Generally speaking though it’s probably worth pointing out that ‘Broken’ is kind of an exaggeration here. Pathfinder: Kingmaker > General Discussions > Topic Details. +0: 59.80 Edit: Lol okay just ignore that bit about the Kensai. Pact of the Chain is especially useful as it contains a unique invocation that, as long as our familiar is within 100 ft of us, all healing dice rolled to heal us are automatically maximized. Please help. Being able to cast any spell of levels 8 and lower, such as Simulacrum, without requiring components of any kind, is great. I believe that the build doesn’t start using Sharp Shooter until level 8, you can check out the calculations via a link in the build. 4d6+8d8+20d12+64 (x3 rapier / tenser’s transformation / simulacrum / song of victory / find greater steed (wish)), 10: 212.59 d20pfsrd.com is not responsible for the content therein. Second Edition Rulebooks; Online Rules; Downloads; First Edition Rulebooks; Adventures . Alongside these two spells we have access to both arcane and divine spell lists. Yeah prior to taking warcaster you can drop your weapon as a “free” action, cast something, then pick it back up, that whole song and dance is pretty poorly defined in the rules so checking with your GM is important, if they’re more strict in that regard I’d just take warcaster earlier. Ah, okay. I also generally don’t play to high levels- the highest level a campaign of mine ever got to was 14 and If I’m not mistaken a Martial Class optimized for range combat should match or exceed your bardcher until at least level 11 when it gets it’s magical secrets. Thanks for pointing out that a monster’s multiattack is not the same as a character’s extra attack, I actually forgot that. These are some of the best build optimization guides I’ve found so far. Hit: 12 (2d6 + 5) slashing damage, which is the 2d6 out of 10. and 1d8 out of 9 +10 flat damage if you hit. The damage spike at level 5 is due to conjure animal generating 8 velociraptors that add a huge amount of damage. I do think that all these builds are significantly above average power level, and from experience using them they could solo many of the adventures they have played through. The bardcher build doesn’t run afoul of this. Those handbooks are not proof power gaming exists or that people min-max. 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